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February 06, 2007
| 3100 | Iraq |
The carnage continues in Iraq.
US troops killed in Iraq as of today: 3101.
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And hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. For what?
Posted by Jonathan at February 6, 2007 12:15 PM
Comments
> For what?
We removed a tyrannical dictator responsible for the deaths of millions. He would not doubt have killed hundreds of thousands more if he were still in power. And we have partially shored up our oil supply. We need oil to run our country and maintain our standard of living, in case you didn't notice. Lots of it. Without oil the US would be back in the agrarian age, and all of our lives would suffer immensely.
Posted by: Kevin at February 7, 2007 12:52 PM
Ah, Kevin, now we are beginning to understand your m.o.
The war is about oil, and for you, that is just fine. Blood for oil.
Thank you for removing your mask and revealing your true nature.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 7, 2007 03:54 PM
Yes, Lane, we need oil, and there is a lot of oil in Iraq. This hardly reveals any masks. Wars are usually fought over natural resources, and this one is no different. This war is about defending your standard of living. You need oil as much as I do. Otherwise how are you going to power your car, heat your home, run your computer, buy your food? All these things require oil, and large quantities of it--your share alone amounts to about 100 barrels a year. What do you suggest we run things on--butterflies and good wishes?
Don't be so naive.
Posted by: Kevin at February 7, 2007 04:45 PM
Can't let such ignorance pass without comment, Kevin, but really, nobody could be that supid to suggest we go out and steal oil, or start wars over it. Like, duh, we've been importing oil for 30+ years, and will continue to import oil until it's gone. Do we steal it? No, dumbo, we pay for it on the open market, and will continue to pay for it, purchasing from the many countries who need the revenue. What you are suggesting is world-wide open warfare, and there's no survival value in that. I'm ashamed I lowered myself to respond to your idiocy.
Posted by: IPDaily at February 7, 2007 07:27 PM
There should be an eleventh commandment:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's oil.
It saddens me that our society has adopted a caveman mentality to solving our energy needs. I thought we were more inventive and creative than that, but alas, it seems we have run out of ideas and are now resorting to brute force so we can keep our Hummers.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 7, 2007 08:05 PM
The somewhat amusing aspect about Kevin's theory (though I agree with him that its all about the oil - and Iraq is the biggest full barrel of oil left on the planet) is that the US presence in Iraq has kept the oil flow from the country much lower than if they'd simply let Saddam sell as much as he like on the world market.
Hence Greg Palast's theories that this is a byzantine way of making more money flow into the pockets of Exxon and co.
Of course, post peak, Iraqi oil is the most valuable resource on the planet bar none (unless we all escape from the clutches of the oil monster by electrifying our transport systems), which is why all those US troops are being sacrificed to try and hold onto it...
Its not about access to oil - its abut control of oil.
Posted by: Big Gav at February 8, 2007 02:59 AM
Lane_in_PA wrote:
> ...it seems we have run out of ideas
> and are now resorting to brute force
> so we can keep our Hummers.
It is not to power Hummers, Lane, it is to power YOUR LIFE. So get off your high horse. You use 100 barrels of oil a year. That has to come from somewhere, and the US supply is about exhausted. Oil is involved in practically everything you do and everything you own. It is YOUR standard of living that is being protected and defended here. If this standard of living were to be cut back due to a shortage of oil, you would be kicking and screaming about the suffering you'd endure, along with the rest of the American population, and you would lead a sharply reduced life. I certainly do not want that for myself.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 09:44 AM
IPDaily, we may buy oil on the open market, but who do you think sets the market? Those with the oil. The US needs to counter the strength of OPEC, which seriously threatens us in a peak-oil world. It needs to counter the growing oil demands of China, a real threat to us getting 80 million barrels of oil a day at a reasonable price. Why do you think we are building multiple huge permanent military bases in Iraq? Why do YOU think we are in Iraq?
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 09:50 AM
Me, on a high horse? Since your view of my life style is so grossly skewed, allow me to straighten you out. My husband carpools to work, which is less than 8 miles away. I'm a homemaker, very much in the Amish sense of the term. We live in a energy-efficient home of modest size (1400 sq. ft. Not a McMansion in any way or form). We have a 7 year old car which has less than 40,000 miles on it, we don't spend much on gasoline. We recycle. While we are attempting to become better gentleman farmers, we do support our local farmers and butcher shops -- no chain grocery markets for us. I don't think our lives will be as intolerable as yours will be because we have spent the last 6 years preparing for the necessary lifestyle in the hard times ahead.
We're ants, you're a grasshopper. Fiddle on, Kevin. Just keep fiddling on. I'm not the naive one, it's you, pal.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 8, 2007 11:21 AM
Lane, your lifestyle might require less oil per capita than average, but you still use dozens and dozens of barrels of oil a year and the high standard of your living utterly depends on it. Most other Americans are living wisely as well (the average commute to work is only about 20 minutes), they are recycling, they are trying to conserve (it costs less, if nothing else), but there is a huge amount of embedded energy usage in our economy, to grow the food you buy, to built the cars and roads and parking lots and buildings and home and products you use, to power your home, to make your drugs, etc. etc. etc.
I will compare my lifestyle to yours any day. I work at home, so have no commuting costs. I drove only 1,640 miles in the last 12 months. I do not need to use any heat whatsoever in my apartment, and use A/C only at night for three summer months. I buy 100% green power. In the last 12 months I used 4,943 kW-hr of electricity--the average household uses 12,000 kW-hr. I use no natural gas at all. My carbon footprint is 4,900 lb/yr, about 1/3rd the national household average. I took only one cross-country plane trip in the last 12 months, and that was to a funeral. I can't even remember the last non-food item I bought--besides things like soap and toothpaste, it was probably a Skype headset, purchased last July.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 11:59 AM
Oh, and the power company just sent me a letter yesterday saying I saved 6,300 lbs of CO2 in 2006 by purchasing green power. This represents an environmental benefit equal to not driving 6,700 miles.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 12:07 PM
Of course, I recycle all newsprint, glassware, and cardboard.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 12:15 PM
More statistics for you (I am a complete nerd for spreadsheets): I purchased only 79 gallons of gasoline in the last 12 months.
Correction: I did purchase a toy truck for my nephew for Christmas. It was made of plastic, which comes from oil.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 12:31 PM
My car, purchased used, is also 7 years old. Before that the last time I bought a car was 10 years earlier. I didn't even own a car until I was 26, walking and biking everywhere. I am 47 years old, and have only owned three cars in my life.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 12:33 PM
You're cute when you're on the defensive.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 8, 2007 01:12 PM
Lane, I was on the offensive. I thought you would at least be able to recognize that, but I guess not.
Posted by: Kevin at February 8, 2007 03:00 PM
Five posts to explain your green position is NOT going on the defensive? Hello?
Ah, you had to go and mess up the "cute factor". Too bad.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 8, 2007 04:19 PM
Lane wrote:
> Five posts to explain your green
> position is NOT going on the defensive?
No, as I said, it's going on the offensive. And I see that you capitulated. I'm significantly greener than you are (surprised you, didn't I?), so you can stick your attitude.
Posted by: Kevin at February 9, 2007 11:18 AM
I capitulate not at all. And nothing about you surprises me one whit. And for you to assume you are somehow GREENER is simply silly. I hope you can grow enough food on your apartment balcony to feed yourself. Just because I didn't mention bicycles and walking doesn't mean I don't do it.
A gentleman you are not. It is rude to tell someone to "stick it", it doesn't matter what "it" is referring to, whether it be attitude or whatever. So typical of you NeoCons. So much for civility.
Kevin, I am inclined to believe that when the going gets rough, you will be one of those who are willing to steal from those who have prepared themselves for the worst. Again I say you are the grasshopper who fiddles while the ants prepare. You, being a non-land owner, have no renewable resources, and you will find yourself in a precarious situation with no means to feed yourself. (Perhaps you can count on the kindness of strangers?)
And before you protest that you are not that person, let me remind you that you have already voiced your opinion that you feel it is justified for the United States to steal oil from other countries to sustain the wasteful way of life we so enjoy here.
I hope you have fun in the New World Order. Oh, by the way, do you have any knowledge about how your fearless leader has prepared himself for the coming Fall? Oh, yes, the Crawford Ranch is self-sustaining. Just for starters, the underground cistern holds 40,000 gallons of water. Maybe when things go sour, you can call him up and ask for a room at the stable.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 9, 2007 04:14 PM
It is far more sustainable to live in high-density urban housing, and you are being greedy and wasteful by insisting on a stand-alone house. You think because you recycle a littel bit and have an 8-minute commute that you're somehow excused? You are as dependent as anyone on the massive energy supplies that power this nation.
Food? First of all you will never be able to grow enough to sustain yourself, and if things get as bad as you paranoids think, you will certainly not be able to defend it, either. The whole damn country will be far under at that point--don't think a garden and a cow and an acre of corn are going to do you any good. This is precisely why soldiers in Iraq are fighting--to defend the high standard of living which our ancestors and parents have built.
Yes, I do believe we are justified in fighting for oil. We need oil. We need lots of oil--80 million barrels a day. Without it every one of our lives would shrink and shrivel and we would all suffer terribly. I certainly don't want that to happen to any American. Why do you want it to happen to America?
No, I am not a gentleman. I don't aspire to it, either. So watch out.
Posted by: Kevin at February 9, 2007 11:52 PM
Poor Kevin, lives alone, sits in front of a computer all day, crunches numbers perhaps, doesn't have a date for tonight, or any other night in the far reaching future, doesn't have any survival skills except for troilling, probably needs to clean his keyboard of the Doritos grease, phlegm, bitten-off finger nails, and God knows what other body emissions inhabit the canals between the letters and numbers.
You're just jealous that you're a 47 year old white male still living in an apartment and you're afraid that one day, when it all comes crashing down, your neighbors wlll look at you, assess the energy-rich fat you offer, and think "Lunch." Don't hand me that crap about my being "greedy and wasteful by insisting on a stand-alone house". My great grandparents survived just fine with a garden, a cow and a yard full of chickens and a stand-alone house; otherwise I wouldn't be here now.
No, you are not a gentleman, you are a barbarian.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 10, 2007 05:16 PM
It's okay that my original response has been censored. Even thought it contained nothing but sincere rebuttals.
But I insist that the comment about Kevin not being a gentlemen be met with "you are a barbarian."
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 10, 2007 06:32 PM
I stand corrected. The original message now appears. Magic. I apologize for my knee jerk reaction.
However, Kevin STILL a barbarian.
Posted by: Lane_in_PA at February 10, 2007 06:35 PM
Lane wrote:
> My great grandparents survived just
> fine with a garden, a cow and a yard full of
> chickens and a stand-alone house; otherwise I
> wouldn't be here now.
You are extremely naive. Your grandparents lived in a country with only about 1/3rd the population of today's. Everyone then had a garden and a chicken. Moreover, people died earlier, had much harder lives, and suffered more from illness and disease. When the coming hungry masses storm out out of the cities, they will trample over you and your garden and you will barely even have time to get out of the way, let alone have any power to stop them. Life in the US is far more interconnected and complex than it was during your grandparent's time. If the power grid goes, if the transportation network breaks apart for lack of fuel, when you are sitting in the dark around a single candle fingering your rifle, hungry, exhausted, anxious about all the people you hear milling about and the rumors floating around, anxious about the cough you have that just won't go away and wondering if that cut you suffered yesterday is becoming infected--then you can tell me how idealic your back-to-nature life has become. Have you ever even gone camping for more than a couple of days?
Fortuntely we have brave men and women who are right now defending your present lifestyle, putting their own lives on the line, regardless of your lack of gratitude, defending that 1/4th of a barrel of oil that you need every day, and you don't even have the courage to admit it, let alone thank them.
Posted by: Kevin at February 11, 2007 07:51 AM
Lane, this is what people are sacrificing for you:
http://www.worldpressphoto.com/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=875&Itemid=146&bandwidth=high]?rss
Posted by: Kevin at February 12, 2007 08:25 AM
Wow. I miss a couple of days, and suddenly it's Lord of the Flies. :-)
Posted by: Jonathan at February 12, 2007 05:36 PM